4:00 p.m.
Richard-RI has connected.
Roger-RI waves
Richard-RI waves back
Roger-RI suddenly disappears.
Anuj-RI has connected.
Richard-RI goes down.
Roger-RI arrives from nowhere.
Sapphire_Guest arrives from nowhere.
David-RI has connected.
Lauren-RI has connected.
Mary-RI has connected.
Anuj-RI says, "Hi""
Lauren-RI says, "hey"
Mary-RI says, "what's wrong with this"
Anuj-RI says, "?""
Lauren-RI says, "with what?"
Mary-RI says, "nevermind"
Anuj-RI has disconnected.
Anuj-RI has connected.
June-RI has connected.
David-RI flub flub
Ben-RI wishes Roger happy-reading
Roger-RI waves to everyone
Mary-RI says, "how do we read again?"
Mary-RI waves back
Lauren-RI says, "Read "something" on MB"
Anuj-RI has disconnected.
Lauren-RI says, "something can be the number or the title"
Melissa-RI has connected.
Richard-RI arrives from nowhere.
Ben-RI says, "remember to visit http://www.du.org/cc/basicmoo.html for the
basics"
Anuj-RI has connected.
Ben-RI says, "when does the party start?"
Richard-RI says, "schmuch, I don't have time to go home and be in my
'comfortable' location..."
Richard-RI scowls
Mary-RI smiles a friendly smile at Richard
Richard-RI says, "If I'm not mistaken, Ben, we should be beginning in...about 5
minutes"
June-RI waves to everyone
Lauren-RI says, "run!!"
Richard-RI chuckles
David-RI says, "foo"
Anuj-RI says, "hey June!""
June-RI says, "anuj!"
Anuj-RI says, "barr"
Anuj-RI says, "doh"
Melissa-RI says, "bar?"
Richard-RI says, "Can anyone get the web interface to work?"
Mary-RI says, "you guys are so silly"
Ben-RI says, "the web interface works fine for me. using Netscape"
Roger-RI says, "I'm running the Web interface, but without the telnet applet;
it's a bit slow but otherwise fine"
Anuj-RI says, "I couldn't get the combined window to work, but they work as
seperate entities"
June-RI says, "can u guys give me the web address again?"
Richard-RI says, "That's what I mean, the combined window...it hasn't yet
worked for me at all"
Roger-RI goes home.
Ben-RI says, "http://moo.dumain.du.org:8000/"
Roger-RI arrives from nowhere.
Roger-RI goes home.
June-RI says, "thanks ben"
Ben-RI says, "The combined telnet/browser window works fine for me."
Anuj-RI says, "ahh....digimon and cs92....joy...."
Mary-RI giggles
Richard-RI says, "digimon??? it's on right now??"
Anuj-RI says, "yep"
Roger-RI arrives from nowhere.
June-RI says, "ben that address doesnt work"
Roger-RI goes home.
Mary-RI says, "hmmmm..."
Roger-RI arrives from nowhere.
Anuj-RI says, "try http://www.du.org/dumoo/loginto.htm"
Mary-RI says, "are we starting yet?"
Roger-RI smiles
June-RI says, "k"
Roger-RI says, "There are 9 of us here; shall we start Lauren? Richard? What
say you?"
David-RI blubs
Richard-RI says, "My vote is to start"
June-RI says, "thanks anuj"
Ben-RI says, "yes, anuj, that's it."
Richard-RI says, "Alright, let's begin"
Richard-RI says, "Does everyone have enough browser windows open?"
Paul-RI has connected.
Ryan-RI has connected.
Mary-RI says, "why do we need enough browsers?"
Melissa-RI says, "enough for what?"
June-RI says, "how many do we need?"
Lauren-RI says, "if you want to view the summary and questions online"
Lauren-RI says, "at the same time as this"
Richard-RI says, "If you want to view the MOO at the same time, you'll want a
browser window open for that as well"
June-RI says, "can u send that address again? or is it in the notes board?"
Nigel-RI has connected.
Richard-RI says, "If anyone hasn't yet read the notes, please read the
MendelBoard"
Richard-RI says, "The address is on #5 on the MendelBoard"
Roger-RI says, "OK, let's begin again as a number of people have just logged
on"
Roger-RI says, "Hello everyone, and please listen for Richard's opening lines"
Roger-RI says, "Or Lauren's opening lines"
Richard-RI clears his throat
Richard-RI says, "Alright, the topic is Chapter 11 of Schank and Cleary"
Ted-RI has connected.
Richard-RI says, "The chapter deals with issues of knowledge, more on
goal-oriented curricula, and future ideas for educational changes"
Richard-RI says, "Let's begin with the Basic Processes"
Maria-RI has connected.
Richard-RI says, "You can read them over again in the notes posted on the web,
as directed in Mendelboard Note #5"
Richard-RI says, "Remember that we're going freeform for the first 30 minutes"
Richard-RI says, "So just chime in when you want, until 4:40"
Richard-RI says, "First question: Do you agree with these Basic Processes?"
Richard-RI says, "Are they too abstract to be useful?"
Richard-RI urges someone to begin
Roger-RI says, "One question I had was: if we accept these as Basic, then is
there anything of value we're missing?"
Melissa-RI says, "i wouldn't say they are too abstract but just what they said
in the book: there are different ways people do them, and no 1 way that is
correct."
Mary-RI says, "i think they are a good starting point, but i'm not sure they
cover everything"
Roger-RI says, "What might not be covered?"
Mary-RI says, "i'm not sure, i'm just feel like something is missing--I can't
really explain it"
Richard-RI says, "But at the same time, I think that 'reasoning' is very broad,
and covers a wide range"
Mary-RI says, "sorry I'm being so non-verbal today"
David-RI says, "I kind of think that they're general enough that you could
cover just about anything in them."
Paul-RI says, "It doesn't seem as if skills such as farming, plumbing, etc. are
covered""
Lauren-RI says, "So are they a good thing to keep in mind or not?"
Paul-RI says, "which is not to say that school teaches these now""
David-RI says, "I agree with Richard, Reasoning is a huge topic"
Lauren-RI says, "He doesn't say to teach them, but to think about them"
Paul-RI says, "But a civilization needs these types of jobs to be done.""
Lauren-RI says, "I think that they're a fine set of things to keep in mind"
Lauren-RI says, "What Paul is talking about would come under the set of skills"
Richard-RI says, "Do you think that these basic processes match with things
that people would inherently find interesting?"
Roger-RI thinks this a good question
Mary-RI says, "i think anything that people find interesting could be covered
under such broad categories"
Ben-RI says, "Isn't the object to disguise these thing in tasks that the
student finds interesting? They shouldn't be explicitly taught."
Melissa-RI says, "yup, i agree with lauren... I think communication and human
relations is interesting and covers lots about interpersonal relationships."
David-RI agrees with Ben
Maria-RI says, "sorry, are we talk"maybe not disguise so much as embedd them in
a lesson or whatnot"
Richard-RI says, "Ben is right, S&C say that these are ideas not meant to be
taught explicitly"
Richard-RI says, "How do they propose to resolve necessity with interests,
then? (Question 1)"
June-RI says, "arent we partaking in these general processes everytime we learn
something interesting?"
Melissa-RI says, "seems like most of them are 'taught' now just with practice
while making projects, etc."
Nigel-RI says, "I think its a bit presumtuous to even attempt to teach Human
Relations"
Mary-RI says, "exactly june"
Nigel-RI says, "But I agree with missy (projects)"
Mary-RI agrees with nigel
Lauren-RI says, "On the contrary, I think we teach Human Relations whenver we
have a project"
Lauren-RI says, "with other humans"
June-RI says, "although in elementary school we do teach students the "steps" t
do everything"
Melissa-RI says, "i don't think we teach it but just let you explore"
Ben-RI says, "I'd still rather conflate human relations and communications into
one process. If we're already going to be this broad then the topics should be
(1) interfacing with others; and (2) working within our minds"
Mary-RI says, "we teach human relations any time we interact in school and tell
people how to behave"
Nigel-RI says, "sorry, I meant to add the word 'explicitly'. Of course we
teach a wide range of these things, but they can hardly be curricular"
Melissa-RI says, "projects are always a learning experience but a lot of what
you learn is how YOU deal with other people, as well as how other people react
to you."
Roger-RI says, "Is it reasonable to expect that someone can naturally 'arrive'
at reasoning skills without certain ideas being made explicit?"
June-RI has lost track of the original question
David-RI says, "I kind of agree with Ben. These are very, very wide and
communications and human relations do seem to go togehter.""
June-RI remembers now
Melissa-RI says, "i don't know that reasoning covers working within oneself
though... what about figuring out your feelings, etc."
Ben-RI says, "I don't think that something like reasoning needs to be
explicitly taught. It can be learned in an auxilliary manner."
Maria-RI says, "I agree with Ben and David"
Mary-RI says, "i think sometimes learning reasoning skills needs some
direction"
Mary-RI says, "in the sense that a teacher has that as a goal, but doesn't
necessarily say, now we are going to learn reasoning"
Nigel-RI says, "I left out 'reasoning' out of my blanket statement because I
think it needs/CAN be taught explicitly"
Ben-RI agrees that being able to draw on a teacher or peer's experience is good
June-RI says, ""in elementary school and middle school though, students are
usually given rubrics and strategies to reason"
Nigel-RI says, "that seems to be one of the few things one would wish students
would take away from school. "
Maria-RI says, "yeah, Mary, a teacher would be kidding himself if he thought he
could teach a skill like reasoning in total isolation of any facts"
Mary-RI says, "june, could you expand on what you said?"
Richard-RI says, "June is right - doesn't this bring up the issue of
fact-oriented teaching?"
Ben-RI says, "Really? We just had tons of word problems to chew on."
David-RI says, "But communication is sometimes taught too. We teach people how
to write effective papers, how to give effective presentations, etc."
Lauren-RI says, "Its not a question of isolation from facts, but a departure
from fact as goals"
Lauren-RI says, "Well, do you think that's neccessary as goal - a writing
class?"
Ted-RI Thinks they should teach how to follow the discussion in a MOO at school
Melissa-RI says, "haha"
Mary-RI ponders for a moment
June-RI says, "like in any project that involves problem solving, at least in
my experience, it is important to model and show students how to thnk through
problems, so that is not teaching reeasoning in context, its explicitly showing
students how to tackle and reason out a probelm"
Richard-RI suggests hitting enter after every line that is written
Lauren-RI says, "Or should they learn writing by getting comments on their
truck paper"
Anuj-RI says, "Like lauren said-a lot of lesssons are taught under the heading
od a certain subject , but with another goal, like reasoning (critical
reasoning in mind"
Ted-RI thanks richard
Ben-RI says, "I think I'd find being hand-held through every problem to be
stifling."
Mary-RI says, "i like the idea of interactive grading, like they do in CS now"
Mary-RI agrees with ben
June-RI says, "true me too ben, i was referring to elementary students and
middle school students mostly"
Mary-RI says, "it helps you think about your own reasoning skills rather than
simply getting a few comments back"
David-RI says, "The problem with interactive grading is that it doesn't scale
well. When there are a few students, you can give good feedback, when there are
many ,it is much more difficult."
June-RI wonders what is interactive grading
Mary-RI concedes david has a good point
Mary-RI says, "who would like to explain interactive grading?"
Nigel-RI says, "I wil"
June-RI says, "in cs?"
Mary-RI says, "yes"
Ryan-RI has disconnected.
Melissa-RI says, "yes, somewhat stifling but to have models shown but at least
that gives some direction..."
Paul-RI says, "I think that there's a problem with the goal of Communications
in that the learner-directed nature of S&C work would end up grouping people by
interest.""
Nigel-RI says, "After a program is turned in, the TAs will sit down "
Paul-RI says, "I think that an important part of communications""
Nigel-RI says, "with each student and discuss the output of the program with
them"
Nigel-RI says, "this is especially helpful if there is a bug, or something
going logically wrong"
June-RI understands now
Paul-RI says, "is dealing with those with other interests, viewpoints, etc.""
June-RI agrees with that paul's is a good point
Mary-RI says, "i feel like that is much better than getting a number or letter
telling you how you did"
Ben-RI says, "Consider the problems most of us probably worked on when younger;
it didn't really matter that we knew how many gallons of water it takes to fill
an Olymipic-sized pool. What matters is the techniques were were picking up"
Richard-RI says, "Paul - how does that impact communication? Do you mean that
you lose out on other interests?"
David-RI says, "I agree, it is much more helpful to have communicative feeback"
Nigel-RI Nigel feels like we're going on a lot of tangents
Paul-RI says, "To Richard -- No, not necessarily...""
June-RI says, "i think that if you are always around people who have the same
interests, you never have to ciritically examine or change the way you
commnuicate"
David-RI feels we have fallen in the typical chat-room problem of having
multiple conversations
Paul-RI says, "I think that you miss out on dealing with conflict, for one.""
Mary-RI nods
Paul-RI says, "It's not so much missing out on the content of the other
interests""
Nigel-RI pleads for moderation before 5:10
Mary-RI smiles
Paul-RI says, "as (potentially) missing out on the processes by which people
resolve their differences.""
Richard-RI says, "Okay, then on Paul's point..."
Richard-RI says, "Let's turn to question 3..."
Ted-RI Check's his e-mail without anyone nothing . . .
Ted-RI says, "noticing""
Mary-RI laughs
Anuj-RI says, "also explaining things to people who are not familiar with the
subject is an extremely valuable skill"
Maria-RI says, "don't you think that people with the same 'interest' might
approach it a number of different ways, that is, there might still be
conflict.'"
Mary-RI agrees with Maria
Richard-RI says, "If we end up grouping by interest, don't we end up with the
same problems mentioned in question #3?"
Melissa-RI agrees with M&M
Ted-RI says, "Yes, Maria, but still there are advantages from getting
prospectives with entirely different interests""
June-RI says, ""that is possible i agree richard"
June-RI says, "but wouldnt students be getting the same set of skills?"
Maria-RI says, "I don't even know if I could explicitly state my 'interests'
now or in middle school"
Mary-RI says, "totally ted"
June-RI says, "no matter what subject they chose"
Will-RI has connected.
June-RI says, ""so in theory they could apply them to a varieyt of professions"
Nigel-RI says, "the problems mentioned in question 3 reminded more of those
interests being REGULATED, rather than explored, nurtured, etc"
David-RI says, "Definitely one of the most important things 'learned' in school
is socialization (even if itis not explicityly taught)"
Mary-RI says, "i have found that while there are different ways of thinking
within on group of similarly interested people, there are even more
perspectives available across disciplines"
Paul-RI says, "I think that's a good point, Maria. But I think that educators
have some inroads to determining learners' interests.""
June-RI says, "S&C try to say that no matter what GSB or whatever it was people
choose, they should learn the same set of skills"
Ted-RI says, "what are those inroads, paul?""
Lauren-RI says, "they don't think they should learn the same skills at all"
Paul-RI says, "I think that meeting with learners one on one helps a lot...""
June-RI says, "or rather you can design modules that have the same set of
target skills"
Mary-RI says, "but what do we think? "
Nigel-RI says, "I think there's a big difference between the 'basic set of
skills' we're all talking about"
June-RI says, "but have different interests"
Lauren-RI says, "S&C don't want the same set of skills for everyone, they want
skills based on interests"
Nigel-RI says, "Its certainly important that each person should know how to
read/write. basic arithmatic"
Richard-RI says, "But how do we decide on what is 'basic'?"
David-RI says, "It is possible that if say, one person wants to learn about
theater and another person wants to learn about politics, they will both need
writing skills -- is it possible to group these people together in one lesson?"
Paul-RI says, "In retrospect, I'd gladly have sacrificed 20 minutes of recess
time a week to have a sense that my teachers really knew who I was during
elementary school.""
Richard-RI says, "Or rather, how do S&C suggest deciding on such things?"
Mary-RI says, "some people would say algebra is basic, others would disagree"
Roger-RI says, "I think question #3 is as much about education's role in
creating community/nationhood as about creating vocation in individual
students. 'skills' are not the only issue"
Nigel-RI says, "Mary, that conversation could go on forever. but there is some
common consensus."
June-RI nods
Mary-RI says, "ok"
June-RI nods to rogers comment
Maria-RI says, "yeah,r, we could say that knowing the constitution is basic"
June-RI is thinking about rogers comment
Richard-RI bangs the gong! TIME IS UP!!!
Mary-RI rubs her ears
Richard-RI says, "Alright, sorry to cut everyone off, but we do need more
moderation."
David-RI has ringing ears
Paul-RI detests this medium
Roger-RI leans back in his chair and sighs, exhausted
Maria-RI says, "I agree with Paul"
Mary-RI giggles softly
Richard-RI says, "We're going to ask what you prefer in terms of moderation."
Richard-RI says, "Either we can go round-robin,"
Lauren-RI says, "or we can raise hands :)"
Richard-RI says, "...or we can give a 'speaking stick' to each person"
Richard-RI says, "after they raise their hands"
Mary-RI laughs
Ben-RI whacks Mary-RI with speaking stick
Melissa-RI actually likes this medium though everything moves much faster
Richard-RI says, "Which would you all prefer? Please only pick one of the
two."
Nigel-RI says, "The conch!! woohoo. Kill the pig, spill its blood"
Lauren-RI says, "one opinion per peson, please"
Mary-RI lol
Richard-RI says, "Mary?"
Paul-RI says, "speaking stick""
June-RI says, "i say speckin"i say speaking stick"
Melissa-RI says, "stick, i guess"
Lauren-RI says, "I like the speaking stick"
Anuj-RI hands
Maria-RI says, "who has the stick?"
Anuj-RI says, "hands"
Roger-RI laughs
Richard-RI says, "okay okay!!!!""
Mary-RI says, "it's stuck in my head"
David-RI says, "I say we say '?' if we have a question/comment and then the
moderator keeps track of this and calls on us. Then we end messages with 'done'
or something."
Ben-RI brandishes the stick and menaces Mary-RI (again)
Richard-RI says, "I have the stick"
Ryan-RI has connected.
Richard-RI says, "Ben, be good!"
Richard-RI says, "ONE STICK IN THE ROOM"
Ben-RI sits down.
Anuj-RI points out the added typing of passing a stick
Richard-RI says, "I will give it away based on whomever raises their hands to
ask for it"
Lauren-RI says, "Its worth it"
June-RI says, "richard should keep track of who wants to talk like david said
anf give the stik to people"
Lauren-RI claps hands over mouth
Melissa-RI says, "eek, yelling... i'm scared... :("
Ted-RI says, "what if people rebel?"
Nigel-RI agrees STRONGLY with June
Roger-RI wonders whether this was a good idea
Richard-RI says, "After you are done speaking, you will ask for hands to be
raised, and YOU pick a person to whom to give the stick"
Anuj-RI still thinks this was a good idea
Roger-RI says, "Good"
Ted-RI Thinks it was a good lesson
Mary-RI is afraid to talk because ben scares her
Nigel-RI observes that this would NEVER work for a real classroom. MOO, he
exclaims
Richard-RI is stoic
June-RI agrees with richard
June-RI says, "lets do it"
Roger-RI thinks Richard's last idea was good
Will-RI looks for the stick key on his keyboard
Nigel-RI wants to start discussing question 4 & 5
Richard-RI says, "okay, then we'll go with Nigel's desires"
June-RI says, "ok richard lets go"
Richard-RI says, "Let's also please stop emoting excessively"
June-RI says, "okay"
Richard-RI says, "Let's start with Question 5. Nigel, I'm giving the stick to
you first. Please ask for hands after you're done speaking, and THEN everyone
can raise their hands."
Richard-RI gives the stick to Nigel
Nigel-RI says, "I think that because of teachers/parents, students are often
herded into a field before they are quite ready"
Nigel-RI says, "I was often told that I would 'be good at math/science' and
therefore never explored writing"
Nigel-RI says, "leave alone athletics/theater (nonacademic)"
Nigel-RI says, "Students may have a feel EARLY what they may want to study, but
should only focus down that direction after"
Nigel-RI says, "they themselves have had a chance to explore different options.
HighSchools rarely provide that academic diversity"
Nigel-RI is enjoying the stick, but wants to hear from others
Lauren-RI hand
June-RI raises hand
Anuj-RI raises han
Mary-RI hates the stick, because she can't speak naturally
Nigel-RI says, "can I propose an idea? say 'hand, plus some sort of two word
description of your comment"
Nigel-RI says, "otherwise, I have to pick the first person. There fore:"
Nigel-RI passes stick to Lauren
Lauren-RI says, "How about we now go in order, and keep it sh"or we can go in
order of hand and keep it short"
Will-RI has disconnected.
Richard-RI says, "I Agree. Let's go with Lauren's idea."
Roger-RI nods OK
Melissa-RI ?
Lauren-RI says, "On the other hand, sometimes Teachers open new vistas for
their students, that they don't think about"
Lauren-RI says, "If they're too obsessed with math, they never try writing, and
having requirements early gets them into that"
Melissa-RI gives an erg sound, just raised her hand that way!
Lauren-RI pass to June
June-RI says, ""what if ..."
June-RI says, "students could choose courses interested them"
Nigel-RI says, "which is why I lean towards waiting till college."
June-RI says, "but they were under general categories"
June-RI says, "and students had to experience different categories of thinking
skills etc"
Ryan-RI hand
David-RI hand!
June-RI says, "but could choose to learn them in ways that interested them"
June-RI says, "passes stick to anuj cause he was next, but acknowledges dave"
Anuj-RI says, "and then there is the entire socialization aspect of "
Anuj-RI says, "schooling, there are those like ED Hirsch"
Anuj-RI shudders at Hirsch's name
Mary-RI smiles in agreement
Roger-RI raises his hand
Anuj-RI says, "who would argue that there are certain things people need to
know to effectively communicate in society"
Anuj-RI says, "this could also be argued for certain skills"
Ryan-RI still ra"kidjdhskgs"
Anuj-RI says, "so I think that in, at least high school, there certain things
which just need to be taught to students"
Anuj-RI says, "though probably college also"
Anuj-RI throws stick to Dave
Melissa-RI says, "hey! what about me? and Ryan???"
David-RI acknowledges other people had their hands up before him and asks them
to reraise hands
Lauren-RI thinks Melissa was next
Richard-RI says, "Melissa was next"
Anuj-RI says, "sorry must have missed it"
David-RI gives stick to Melissa
Roger-RI thinks OY!
Ryan-RI says, "PEOCOOCO:ra:agrees"
Mary-RI nods to roger
Ryan-RI says, "i'm trying to make the point"
Melissa-RI says, "okay so...i like that... distribution requirements are
cool... but i think at some point, maybe HS?, students should have a choice to
go more in depth on a subject... which doesn't mean that they can't change
their subject of choice..."
Mary-RI hand
Melissa-RI says, "i just means they learn more about in-depth researching"
Melissa-RI hands the stick to on-crack Ryan
Mary-RI hates waiting
Ryan-RI says, "i"i was just trying"
Mary-RI says, "sorry"
Ryan-RI says, "to mak"to make the point"
Ryan-RI says, "through my garble"
Ryan-RI says, "that people should know certain"
Ryan-RI says, "things, like how to communicate effectively"
Ryan-RI says, "and when to 'talk'""
Ryan-RI passes the stick to David
Maria-RI says, "hand (because she doesn't know how to do it without quotes"
David-RI says, "Okay, so a lot of people have said what I wanted to say, but
here goes:"
Paul-RI wonders whether or not we could handle 2 sticks...
June-RI thinks defnitely no
Lauren-RI thinks not
Roger-RI agrees no
Melissa-RI shows maria that typing colon then the message works
Lauren-RI thinks this is interesting because we can't interrupt each other like
we do in normal conversation
Maria-RI says, "hey, I just got three really different answers to my question
about how to avoid quotes"
Mary-RI thinks that we can now think out loud though
Melissa-RI thinks kinda freaky too b/c getting no non-verbal feedback
Roger-RI misses the interrupting enormously:)
June-RI which is nice to pass the toime as david writes
Lauren-RI thinks we shouldn't, anshe shouldn't have either
David-RI says, "1) I do think it is important to expose children to many
different disciplines. I think I've made this point before, but until 10th
grade I thought history was a fun but useless subject. In 10th grade, I had a
history teacher that showed me the point -"
David-RI says, "that knowledge of history can be very useful."
Richard-RI wants everyone to be good for the last 10 minutes
David-RI says, "2) In my middle school, we had an elective system. "
Nigel-RI is usually the first one to be distracted
Nigel-RI but hopes that we can reflect on the forum after, cause he really
likes the discussion
David-RI says, "Everyone had to fulfill certain distribution requirements
(language, math, science, music, etc.)"
Maria-RI notes that five people said how to do this and they all said it in
different ways
Melissa-RI ?
David-RI says, "but you got to choose which particular subjects within those to
take. It was a lot of fun."
Mary-RI hand again
June-RI agrees that it is fun
David-RI says, "However, my school eventually got rid of it because they
decided that Middle Schoolers needed more direction at that point in there
life and now they have almost no choice."
Anuj-RI wonders if Dave minded mid thought emotings
Ted-RI loves how you aren't supposed to talk when someone else has the stick,
but you can think about lots of things out loud
David-RI says, "Now, I'm not sure what their data to back this up was, but I
know I really loved all the choice."
David-RI believes Mary had the stick next so give s it to her
Mary-RI says, "so i was talking to a middle school teacher the other day"
Mary-RI says, "he teaches science"
Anuj-RI thinks prof Blumberg had raised hand
Roger-RI thinks so too
Mary-RI says, "and he was telling me about their plot project "
Ryan-RI laughs
Mary-RI says, "it is an in-depth project that allows kids to study a plot of
land at their school"
Mary-RI says, "they learn everything about it"
Mary-RI says, "i feel like things like that, although they don't cover a lot of
material, teach a lot"
Mary-RI says, "teaching something in depth shows students what learning is all
about"
Mary-RI says, "and that is valuable"
Mary-RI passes the stick to roger and apologizes for being rude
Sapphire_Guest has disconnected.
Assistants of the local psychology institute arrive to cart Sapphire_Guest off
to their dream-research labs.
Lauren-RI !!!
Mary-RI wonders what that was all about
Roger-RI says, "I'm struck that all of the comments have tried to justify
educational decisions in terms of individual development"
Roger-RI says, "That's not the only way one might justify them, and until
recently that's not the primary way they've been justified"
Roger-RI says, "Even those who mention 'socialization' end up talking about the
use of social skills for the individual"
Mary-RI nods in agreement
Roger-RI says, "One might ask: what about society, community, etc?"
Maria-RI raises hand
Anuj-RI appears to have had an epiphany
Roger-RI says, "I think that, like the Hirsch book, the Schank & Cleary comes
at a time when people have lost the interest/rationale of using education to
build a nation or a society"
Mary-RI thinks wow.
Roger-RI says, "That's fine, but recall how Dewey thought of education as
needing to satisfy goals having to do with individual development AND the
stability & progress of social structures."
Roger-RI says, "So, therefore, a question I have is how the Schank & Cleary
view could possibly accomplish the latter sorts of goals"
Roger-RI hands the stick to Maria
Richard-RI says, "Forgive me for interrupting, but we are running out of time -
After Roger, it's Maria, Melissa, and then Anuj - please keep each of your
comments to three entries each. Thanks"
Maria-RI says, "sputnick, and the scare about nuclear world-domination and
nonsense like that put the US education system on a science craze"
Maria-RI says, "and back in the Puritan days, it was all about literacy so
people could read the bible"
Maria-RI says, "so maybe now that the US is in a 'relatively' peaceful,
prosperous, and in some ways apathetic state, theres no big push to focus on
any given 'subject'"
Maria-RI habds stick to melissa
Maria-RI hands, that is
Melissa-RI says, "tangent but on Ryan's point way back when... also
individually though... communicating isn't the only thing that's important...
having something to communicate and/or knowing what you want to communicate is
really important too... This in turn helps out"
Melissa-RI says, "communicating with each other, being more effective in that,
building relationship/community/etc..."
Melissa-RI hands stick to Anuj
Anuj-RI says, "actually, prof blumberg already mentioned the cause of my
epiphany, which was a recollection of Dewey's desire to balance certain
opposing forces, including the desires of individual growth, and the need for
social control...i just thought it was an interesting point to remember"
Anuj-RI breaks stick over knee
Richard-RI says, "Thanks, Anuj!"
Richard-RI says, "Okay, let's kill the talk on S&C"
Richard-RI says, "And let's start talking about the MOO"
Lauren-RI says, "So do we want to go back to freeform?"
Richard-RI says, "How I propose to do this"
Richard-RI says, "Is that we go round-robin"
June-RI thniks we should do a round-table turn taking for this
Nigel-RI says, "PLEASE freeform"
Richard-RI says, "but if you all want to do freeform, that's cool..."
Nigel-RI says, "hmm.... round-table works too"
Roger-RI says, "May I suggest something?"
Mary-RI says, "freeform please"
Lauren-RI says, "I like round robin"
Richard-RI says, "please, roger?"
Ted-RI writes maria an e-mail because he is curious if she has any suggestions
for how to approach learning now that there is no major motivating push
Roger-RI says, "Using the MOO to discuss the MOO is fine, but could we also
give some time for people to write something by e-mail or plain old text?"
Ben-RI has disconnected.
June-RI thnks good idea
Mary-RI nods in agreement, as she has a lot to say
Richard-RI is okay with it
David-RI thinks 'cool'
Maria-RI says, "sure"
Richard-RI says, "Should we just post it to the listserv?"
Mary-RI says, "sounds good"
Richard-RI says, "our comments, that is?"
Roger-RI thinks the listserv idea a good one, but we can also keep talking
here; didn't mean to kill that idea
Nigel-RI asks if we can have a transcript of the conversation so we can
articulate examples of where the MOO went wrong/write
June-RI thnks closing comments in round table format wuld be quik and efficient
Nigel-RI says, "err... right, that is"
Maria-RI thinks that time is flying by...must be having fun
Mary-RI says, "there is a transcript--it's the recorder, i think"
Anuj-RI thinks Nigel forgot to read the notice about having a transript
Richard-RI says, "I agree with June; I think we should round-robin it, with
three comments each"
Nigel-RI just doesnt remember where it is
Richard-RI says, "After that, we can all leave and write up our thoughts"
June-RI thnks richard or someone should set the order and list it
Melissa-RI thinks 3 is a random but magic number
Richard-RI says, "here's the order:"
Richard-RI says, "Ben, David, Maria"
Richard-RI says, "Lauren, Mary, Melissa"
Richard-RI says, "Nigel, Will, Ryan"
Richard-RI says, "Ted, June, Anuj"
Richard-RI says, "Ranyee, me, then Roger"
Melissa-RI thinks Ben disconnected
Richard-RI agrees
June-RI says, "ok lets go! :)"
Richard-RI says, "Please take note of who's in front of you"
Richard-RI says, "Dave, start us off!""
David-RI says, "Okay, so I'm first"
Ted-RI things only two lines left for dave
David-RI says, "So, I think the freeform discussion was kind of ridiculous. It
reminded of chat rooms when there are so many conversations going on at once.
It wasn't a good way to hold a class discussion. The moderated discussion was
better."
Paul-RI feels shafted
David-RI says, "It was a bit disconcerting when people were flying their
thoughts but it was nice because I could think and get out everything I wanted
to say."
David-RI is done
June-RI thnks if people are gonna say similar things, just say "ditto" or
somethinhg and add onto it
Maria-RI says, "a couple things - first, I think Telnet has some lessons to
learn from AOL Instant Messenger...I don't like the process of sendig messages
the...see, I just lost my place!"
Paul-RI thanks Richard
Maria-RI says, "second, I wonder how this conversation would be different if we
didn't already know each other from class"
Ben-RI has connected.
Maria-RI says, "sorry for the delat, form=got my " thats all, next?"
Maria-RI delay
Maria-RI gah!
Ben-RI scratches head.
Maria-RI i suck at this :)
June-RI says, "whoes next?"
Lauren-RI says, "are you done?"
Richard-RI says, "Lauren"
Maria-RI yeah
Lauren-RI says, "I though the free form was crazy, but a pretty accurate
reflection of the way we talk in class, except it was harder to notice
interruptions"
Lauren-RI says, "The moderated was slower, and perhaps allowed people to talk
who normally wouldn't, because of interruptions"
Lauren-RI says, "and I thought people went crazy with emoting, not always in a
good way"
Lauren-RI is done
Mary-RI says, "ditto to david, but i hated waiting, because i feel like it was
based on connection speed and how fast people could type rather than natural
thought flow and natural discussion"
Mary-RI says, "i did find it interesting though that i could be anywhere i
wanted, and have real life conversations with people wandering in and out of my
room while being 'in class'"
Mary-RI is done
Melissa-RI says, "ditto Maria on UI"
Melissa-RI . o O ( emoting was wild b/c we were having fun, our first time )
Nigel-RI says, "ditto to most of the things that were said"
Nigel-RI says, "I enjoyed the freeform however, but I agree with Laurens point
about people"
Melissa-RI says, "I liked the freeform more but would want people to type their
responses up"
Nigel-RI says, "being silenced"
Nigel-RI says, "doh, thougth I was next"
Melissa-RI says, "first, then cut and paste when it was their turn... Things
would go"
Melissa-RI says, "faster, and be more coherent."
Melissa-RI says, "doh, cutting and pasting didn't work well that time"
Melissa-RI is done
Nigel-RI says, "as I was saying, I liked freeform, but can see how people could
be silenced"
Richard-RI goes down.
Mary-RI ?
Nigel-RI says, "I'm usually someone who speaks as soon as he has a thought.
(and even interrupts in a MOO forum)"
Melissa-RI says sorry Nigel!
Richard-RI arrives from nowhere.
Melissa-RI whispers, "user interface, liking aol's better"
Nigel-RI is very confused. is it my turn? I think my physical sickness has
slowly turned to insanity
Ben-RI has disconnected.
June-RI says, "finish nigel""
Nigel-RI says, "anyway, I think the problem with mediated discussion, is that
people who have pertinent ideas to the topic don't get heard"
Nigel-RI says, "until the conversation has been moved in a different direction"
Nigel-RI says, "whereas, in a classroom, if they have somethign
important/relavent that they really want to share, they can butt in (politely)"
Nigel-RI says, "and I think the whisper feature can be used more.... I didn't
get very many before, but now am getting flooded with whispers"
Mary-RI giggles
Nigel-RI says, "and I think they can be valuable if there's an important point"
Nigel-RI is getting YELLED at by 5 people to stop talking, so I'm done
Nigel-RI not actually offended ;)
June-RI wonders whos next
Richard-RI says, "Is Will still around?"
Roger-RI Nope
Ryan-RI says, "I'm up?"
Richard-RI says, "yeah, Ryan"
Ryan-RI says, "I wonder whether people actually focus on what others"
Ryan-RI says, "say; I felt like many of us just wanted to drop our points and
run"
Ryan-RI says, "there wansn't much dialogue-- taking a point, teasing it,
working with it..."
Ryan-RI says, "that's my $0.02"
Lauren-RI says, "Ted?"
Richard-RI says, "Ted?"
Lauren-RI says, "jinx"
Ted-RI says, "i think what maria said about having known each other first made
it different. i know that i would have acted much differently towards
strangers. with that said, i think the MOO can be a good opportunity to use on
occassion in a class. it would be great for being out of town, etc.also, if the
GUI could be improved, as well as incorporating voice recognition software, it
would make a world of difference.i do know that if we would have done this on
thursday i would not have missed class because of playing in the jazz band in
new york. i would have just logged on using my laptop"
Ted-RI says, "that's all, i don't know how well that typing worked."
Ted-RI says, "done!"
June-RI says, "i think nigel's point about butting in was a good one. in my
experience..."
June-RI says, "i have to really think about what i want to say in class"
Ryan-RI has disconnected.
Nigel-RI gulps, guiltily
June-RI says, "and a lot of times, the subject moves on and im not someone who
feels comfortable butting in, so i usually just dont say anything"
June-RI says, "i feel i communicate more ceherently in text, in chat ect, but i
agree tht it was way to hectic"
June-RI says, "if we coul"
June-RI says, "if we could improve the downtime from typing to screen, i think
would go a long way to making MOO discussion more interesting"
June-RI is done, thanks all for bearing with him in his oliloquy
June-RI soliloquy? is that how you spell it?
Lauren-RI says, "Anuj?"
Anuj-RI wonders about the social norms being taught when interruptions are both
simple and oftentimes accidental, and whether that these interruptions are a
good or bad thing...
Nigel-RI says they're more often than not good
Lauren-RI thinks Anuj should take AN0080 and read the 101 articles about
interrupting
Anuj-RI goes on to assert that many of the conflicts might be resolved by UI
improvements, such as separate panes for speech and emoting...but warns that
you shouldn't knock Telnet, as he has many a fond [albeit dorky] memory of
BBSing as a younger anuj.
Nigel-RI says, "meaning that they ARE good"
Anuj-RI obviously loves emoting........and is done.
Paul-RI says, "From my SimpleText window to you:Ok. So here's my take on the
MOO: its organization/lack thereof conflicts with our general conversational
habits. I think spoken language is something inherent (potentially
biologically inherent) to human existence. So the MOO is unnatural to us --
either with a small or a capital 'u'.That's why it was so difficult to
establish a middle ground between chaos and stifling order. The medium
challenges time-tested (naturally selected?) protocol. And in that sense, it
may go against Schwartz's suggestion to 'acknowledge what experience the
student brings to the table' in the worst way possible. I don't think a
seminar class can be transferred over into the MOO with any sort of success
unless a more complex set of discussion guidelines is developed.I am done."
Richard-RI says, "Since Ben is gone, I'll go..."
Richard-RI says, "Ditto June, I have problems with speaeking in class when
we've moved on. It's interesting to note the difference in rhetoric, that I
tended tno not be as choice with my words here"
Richard-RI says, "I thought the idea of having structures in the MOO was also
an odd choice...if nothing else, I thought they would have had more open-type
of structures when constructing this virtual world"
Richard-RI says, "And lastly, I think that, in regards to Tiffin and
Rajasingham, it's odd to see what a virtual classroom would be like - I really
rather like the traditional classroom format, and find it odd to not have
"human relations" that S&C demand."
Richard-RI clams up and waits for Roger's enlightenment
Roger-RI says, "Since I know we are long out of time, I'll be very brief. All
learning environments favor some forms of communication and experience over
others, the face-to-face classroom no less than an electronically mediated
space"
Roger-RI says, "But..."
Roger-RI says, "I agree with Ryan that the MOO makes genuine dialogue and
discussion nearly impossible, and seems to valorize speed and (sound)
byte-sized forms of interaction"
Roger-RI says, "On the other hand, I was listening to Mozart during class and
learned a lot by just sitting back and reading all this, so I need to think
more about it"
Lauren-RI notes that we probably wouldn't have stayed in a classroom this long
over the end
Roger-RI says, "Give me twenty minutes to post the transcript of our session;
the URL will be http://www.cs.brown.edu/courses/cs092/cs92.moo.html"
Richard-RI notes that we usually do
Mary-RI says, "cool. see you all later, i guess?"
Roger-RI says, "Please everyone write something reflecting on this experience,
and THANK YOU ALL for one of the most interesting experiments with computers
and edu that I've ever been a part of"
Roger-RI says, "That's it"
Mary-RI has disconnected.
Maria-RI has disconnected.
June-RI says, "nice"
June-RI says, "byeeeee"
Paul-RI wishes everyone a good night and departs for dinner
Anuj-RI says, "word.""
Paul-RI has disconnected.
June-RI says, "this was fun"
Melissa-RI says, "bye-ee... and thanks to Richard and Lauren!"
Lauren-RI bows
June-RI says, "yes thanks richard and lauren!"
Melissa-RI has disconnected.
Richard-RI curtsies
Ted-RI adios, suckas
David-RI says, "bye and thanks for the discussion"
June-RI has disconnected.
Ted-RI says, "thanks, guys! it was fun."
David-RI has disconnected.
Ted-RI has disconnected.
5:50 p.m.